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[中][ENG] 教育非為即時,努力為了將來——訪紫荊盃得獎隊伍編舞及導師何祖宜與林昭蓉 Educating Not for the Present Moment, But Striving for the Future—An Interview with Joey Ho and Lina Lin, Choreographers and Teachers of the Bauhinia Cup Winners

教育非為即時,努力為了將來

Educating Not for the Present Moment, But Striving for the Future

(左)小水點兒童舞蹈團導師及編舞何祖宜、(右)屯門保良局董玉娣中學舞蹈組導師及編舞林昭蓉
(Left) Joey Ho, Choreographer and Teacher of Hibiscus Dance Company; (Right) Lina Lin, Choreographer and Teacher of Po Leung Kuk Tang Yuk Tien College Dance Team; 攝 Photo: Ka Lam

 

很多參賽者都會非常渴望自己的努力能夠在比賽中獲得肯定。在剛剛八月舉行的「紫荊盃舞蹈大賽2018」(下稱紫荊盃)林昭蓉(蓉蓉) 帶領著屯門保良局董玉娣中學的學生們,憑著參賽作品《崩情城市》分別榮奪紫荊盃群舞表演賽金獎、「紫荊盃國際賽」群舞賽金獎及最佳編舞獎,和紫荊盃全場大獎。另一個參賽隊伍小水點兒童舞蹈團(下稱小水點),編舞何祖宜(Joey)則以原創作品《愛與光》奪得「小紫荊盃舞蹈大賽2018」群舞作品賽金獎及小紫荊盃全場大獎。是次兩位編舞與她們的幾位青年舞者,在獲獎後再以互相學習的態度訪談交流,談談他們在舞蹈上所付出的努力、執著和堅持。

 

Many contenders thirst for affirmation of their efforts in competitions. In the Bauhinia Cup Dance Championships 2018 (The Bauhinia Cup) held in August, Lina Lin, with her work Collapsing, led students of Po Leung Kuk Tang Yuk Tien College to sweep the Gold Award in Ensemble Performance in The Bauhinia Cup, Gold Award in Ensemble and Outstanding Choreography Award in The Bauhinia Cup International Dance Championships, and Overall Champion of The Bauhinia Cup. Another competitor, Hibiscus Dance Company (Hibiscus Group), became the winner of Gold Award in Ensemble Originality Section of the Junior Bauhinia Cup Dance Championships 2018 and Overall Champion of the Junior Bauhinia Cup with Love & Light, an original choreography by Joey Ho. After the competition, the two choreographers and several of their young dancers sat together and learned from each other. They shared their stories of striving, perseverance, and persistence in dance.

林昭蓉作品《崩情城市》Lina Lin’s Collapsing; 攝Photo: Henry Wong

何祖宜作品《愛與光》Joey Ho’s Love & Light; 攝Photo: Henry Wong

 

把希望帶給大家

Bringing Hopes to Everyone

 

是次獲得多項大獎是否在你們的預測當中?

Is achieving multiple awards within your expectations?

 

「當然覺得既然參加了比賽就希望能夠拿到好成績。」Joey坦然地說,「但從來不會跟學生說一定要拿到什麽獎回來,反而希望學生能跳得開心之餘,還能夠做到最好。」

 

“Of course we hoped for satisfactory results in joining the contest,” Ho spoke frankly, “but I never demanded students to achieve any sort of awards; rather, I hoped for them to realize their full potential while enjoying dancing.”

 

「因爲紫荊盃是比較專業的舞蹈比賽,我們是抱著一個學習態度去參加,讓學生見識一下,知道自己在哪個水平,並沒有說一定要取得什麽大獎。」蓉蓉接著說,「因爲學生們一般只有參加學校舞蹈節比賽的經驗,所接觸的參賽者都是同年級的。但參賽紫荊盃可以讓學生嘗試與不同年齡、不同層次的香港專業舞蹈團體站在同一個舞台上表演,拓展視野,看看香港的舞蹈界的不同層次。」

 

“Since The Bauhinia Cup is a rather professional dance competition, we joined the contest with the attitude to learn, and winning awards was not the only item on our list. I intended to let students see their standard of dancing.” said Ho. Lin continued, “They [the students] had mostly participated in Schools Dance Festival, so their exposure was with students of the same grade. The Bauhinia Cup enriched their experience as they performed on the same stage as professional Hong Kong dance groups of different ages and levels, allowing them to see the various levels of the dance industry in Hong Kong.”

 

「做老師的都想把最好的帶給學生,Joey的《愛與光》就是表達一種對孩子的愛,把溫暖帶給孩子們。「類似的題材曾在幾年前想過,正好因爲參加比賽,這個想法突然再次浮現。」

 

Teachers naturally want to give the best to their students. Ho’s Love & Light was an expression of love and warmth to children. “I thought of a similar theme a few years ago. It came up again as I happened to join the contest.”

 

 

那你是如何醖釀和構思參賽作品呢?

So how did you brew the piece and let the ideas ferment?

 

Joey指創作概念是來至於2015年期間在東非馬拉威與當地小朋友排練音樂劇舞時的一些感觸。「大概有十幾個十多歲及幾個只有四至五歲小孩。他們父母早逝,全是孤兒。雖然從來沒有學過唱歌跳舞,卻甚有天分,很努力地唱跳,最後在兩個星期之内完成排練並成功表演一場四十五分鐘的音樂劇舞,我真的很感動。」

 

According to Ho, the concept originated from reflections on teaching a group of children musical dance in Malawi, East Africa in 2015. “There were a dozen teens, and a few as young as four to five years old. They were all orphans whose parents passed away a long time ago. Although they had neither learnt singing nor dancing before, they were very talented and committed. In the end, they managed to learn to perform a forty-five-minute musical dance in just two weeks, and I was deeply impressed.”

 

「還有一次我們在飯堂吃飯時,幾個剛剛被收留的孤兒進來了。一位社工便遞白飯給他們吃,結果他們說因為從來沒有見過白飯,不敢吃。我再次被這樣感人的情景打動了。」Joey感慨地說,「那邊的孩子帶給我很多生命的感動和信息,加上當時香港正好又發生了幾宗有關虐兒的事件,促成我決定以愛為主題編創。」

 

“Once when we were eating at the canteen, a few orphans who had just been admitted to the shelter came in. A social worker gave them white rice, but they refused to eat. They said that they had never seen white rice and were afraid to eat. Again I was moved by this,” Ho said emotionally, “the children there brought me moving feelings and thoughts about life; plus, at that time, several cases of child abuse in Hong Kong came to light, and I decided to create a piece to express love.”

何祖宜(前排右一)所教授的東非馬拉威學生在2016年1月到赴港演出 Joey Ho’s (First from the right of the first row) students from Malawi, East Africa visited Hong Kong to perform in January 2016. 圖片由何祖宜提供Photo provided by Joey Ho. 

何祖宜作品《愛與光》Joey Ho’s Love & Light; 攝Photo: Henry Wong

 

「我常覺得在地球上,如果每個人都是負面的,將會令旁人的心態更負面;反之,圍繞著開心的人通常會覺得開心。同樣,如果我們可以放一些愛、一些光出來,去感染一些周圍的人,可以讓他們快樂一些。」

“I always think that if everyone on earth is pessimistic, people around them will become gloomy too; we are usually happier when we are around joyful people. Similarly, if we can give love and light to people around us, we can make them gradually feel better.”

 

説到人間的這份「愛」,蓉蓉常説自己很幸運,二十六年前她從台灣來到香港發展,曾經得到很多人的幫助。《崩情城市》就是一個她對香港都市、對香港人而有感而發的作品。「從台灣的鄉村來到香港的第一個感覺是很深刻的。1992年來到香港,第一印象就是高樓大廈,走到中環看見高樓和漂亮的夜景;但那感覺並不溫暖,覺得是冷冷的一個城市,每個人都是一板一眼的。」所以她選用了四方形的木箱子表達城市人的那種尖銳、硬梆梆很難觸摸的感覺,敲打木箱的憤怒聲音;還從電影吸取靈感設計了一個張開五隻手指纏繞著後頸的動作,投向觀衆的冷漠凝視,營造一種城市獵殺、你爭我奪的感覺。

 

Talking about “love”, Lin said she came from Taiwan to Hong Kong for her career 26 years ago. She always says that she has been lucky for encountering many helping hands in Hong Kong. Collapsing was a work triggered by her feelings towards Hong Kong and people living in this metropolis. “The first impression of Hong Kong was profound as I came from a rather rural place in Taiwan. It was 1992 when I came to Hong Kong, and the skyscrapers impressed me at once. I went to Central to see the tall buildings and beautiful night view, but it did not feel warm, as it was a cold city with robotic people.” That was why she chose square wooden boxes to express the spiky and stiff impression of urbanites, as well as the angry noise of beating the boxes. Inspired by movies, she even designed a movement with an open palm entwining the back of the neck, gazing at the audience with indifferent eyes, giving a feeling of fierce hunting and rivalry in the city.

 

「但是,我也不會想得很負面!」蓉蓉馬上補充,「因爲來到香港遇到了很多願意伸出援手的朋友,對香港的印象也有好的一面,所以箱子最後發出亮燈,帶出香港城市夜景裡的希望,把希望帶給大家。」

 

“However, I also do not think very negatively!” Lin added immediately, “because I have run into many supportive friends here, and this is the bright side of my impression of Hong Kong. Therefore, the boxes are lit up in the end to highlight the optimism of the urban night view in Hong Kong, bringing hopes to everyone.”

 

林昭蓉作品《崩情城市》Lina Lin’s Collapsing; 攝Photo: Henry Wong

我把信任交給你

I Give Trust to You

 

談到為中學生編舞的經驗,蓉蓉說,「我通常會先想一些動作但學生不一定做得到,要嘗試將動作融入他們的身體,有時候準備了十樣東西可能只有一樣可以做到。所以要很信任他們,把舞蹈放在學生的身上變成為他們的東西,若只是硬搬給他們而不隨著他們的身體做變化,到上舞台的時候就會變成了死硬的東西。因此,我要信任他們的身體,從零開始,並用漫長的時間磨合。」蓉蓉認爲,孩子站在舞台上就要以專業的精神演出,所以會把他們當成是專業舞者般訓練,不會因爲他們年小而把他們視為業餘舞者。

 

Speaking of choreographing for secondary school students, Lin said, “Usually I will think of some movements, but students may not be able to do them and I have to try integrate with their bodies. Sometimes only one out of ten things prepared can be achieved. Therefore, I have to trust them very much, and let the dance become theirs. If the moves are forced and do not adjust to their bodies, it becomes deadly stiff on stage. So I have to trust their bodies, work from scratch, and take a long time to adjust.” Lin thought that by standing on stage, students should present themselves with a professional attitude, and so she trained them as professional dancers, and would not view them as amateurs simply because they were young.

 

那麽,一星期排練多久?

So, how much time do you spend on rehearsals?

 

沉默的學生開始搶著回答,「我們每個星期都有排練,每次三個小時……暑假時甚至每次排六個小時……臨近比賽之前還會加排一星期三至四次!」這時蓉蓉皺著鼻子向我們投訴說:「他們身上的T恤臭得要死!」在座的每個人都哈哈大笑起來!

 

The silent students promptly joined the conversation, “We have to rehearse every week. Each rehearsal lasts for three hours……or even six hours during the summer vacation…… there are three to four rehearsals a week as the competition gets closer!” Lin instantly wrinkled her nose and complained to us, “Their t-shirts stank!” They all laughed as Lin spoke.

 

屯門保良局董玉娣中學舞蹈團;(左起)梁鎮武、Ian、何秀芝老師、編舞林昭蓉、Cindy、Alvin、Kelly

Dance Team of Po Leung Kuk Tang Yuk Tien College; (from left) Leung Chun-mo, Ian, teacher Ho Sau-chi, choreographer Lina Lin, Cindy, Alvin, and Kelly; 攝Photo: Ka Lam

 

一般同學們是盡量不缺席排練,對吧?

Students usually try to avoid skipping rehearsals, don't they?

 

「我不是要求他們不請假,既然大家選擇了舞蹈就不能在排練那天請假,學生們都會很自律,不然就會被挨駡的!」沒想到蓉蓉對學生要求起來是如此的嚴厲。

 

“I don't demand that they should not request days off. Since they had chosen dance, they should not take leave on the day of rehearsal. They are self-disciplined, or else they may be scolded!” Rather unexpectedly, Lin could be stern with students.

 

良好的學習風氣也很重要。「學生會因爲喜歡舞蹈而自動自覺地在排練前做壓腿熱身,年紀小的學生會仿效師兄師姐勤勞練習的榜樣,互相影響,是需要他們的配合才能有今天的成果。」Joey說,「這次備賽期間,有一位學員的媽媽不小心報了旅行團,孩子知道後大哭地嚷媽媽改期,寧可參加比賽也不去旅行。還好,後來知道比賽是在旅行的前一天。可見這孩子是多麽喜歡舞蹈!」爲了完成比賽目標,小小年紀就懂得負起應有的責任,非常可貴。

 

A positive learning atmosphere was also crucial. “Because they liked dancing, students took the initiative to stretch for warm up before rehearsals. The younger ones mimicked the diligence of the senior students, and it was that peer influence that made today's fruitful results possible.” Ho said, “When we were preparing for the competition, a student’s mother mistakenly signed up for a travel tour. The student cried and demanded rearranging as she would rather participate in the competition than travel. Luckily, the contest was scheduled the day before traveling. This simply showed how much the student loved dancing.” What a valuable experience for a young student to be aware and willing to bear the responsibility to achieve the goal.

 

一個成功的作品,除了有能力的編舞之外還需要有演員的良好配合。所以,蓉蓉會先把一些生活上的自己的體會、經驗和看法通過音樂分享給學生。她覺得,訓練學生動作不難,難的是要做到可以凝聚觀眾的能量。「畢竟孩子的年紀還是很小,沒有那種經歷,所以要訓練孩子如何帶領觀眾投入。」

 

A successful work needs not only a competent choreographer but also cooperation from performers. Therefore, Lin first shared her feelings, experiences, and insights in life with students through music. She thought that it was not difficult to coach movements with the students; what made it a challenge was to build the energy that would attract the audience. “After all, the students were still young. Without life experiences, they needed training in capturing the audience.”

 

「這些都是苦練。大家一起練習久了自然會有默契,使到感情上、力度上變得一致。」學生們都同意聼音樂是很重要的。「一般老師未必直接告訴我們整個舞蹈的主題是什麽,而是通過排練過程問我們感受,一個簡單的動作表達什麽情緒,我們慢慢摸索出一些感覺和意思來。如果感覺方向找對了,老師就會告訴我們說:『對了,就是這個感覺。』然後讓我們自己發揮。我們的動作會以同學名作為代號,因爲不少動作是由同學提出的意念發展出來的。」

 

“All this needed training and hardwork. They came in sync naturally after training together for a long time, becoming in tune in terms of emotions and dynamics.” The students unanimously recognized the importance of listening to the music. “Generally the teacher may not tell us directly the theme of the whole dance; rather, she asked about our feelings during rehearsals and talked about the emotions represented in a simple move, and we slowly felt our way into certain feelings and meanings. If our direction was right, the teacher would inform us, ‘Yes, that is the feeling,’ and let us develop. We called the movements using our names because they were developed from our ideas.”

屯門保良局董玉娣中學舞蹈團;(後排左起)Ian、梁鎮武、Alvin、Cindy(前排左起)何秀芝老師、編舞林昭蓉、Kelly

Dance Team of Po Leung Kuk Tang Yuk Tien College; (Clockwise from top left) Ian, Leung Chun-mo, Alvin, Cindy, Kelly, choreographer Lina Lin, teacher Ho Sau-chi; 攝Photo: Ka Lam

 

給你那麽一些的不同

A Little Difference to You

 

無可置疑,舞蹈能提供學生全面的人文教育。可是,香港和台灣的舞蹈教育比較起來,卻有著非常大的區別。

 

Undoubtedly, dance can provide students with an all-round humanities education. However, there are distinct differences between the dance education in Hong Kong and Taiwan.

 

「香港的舞蹈學界一定要有學校校長的支持,再由帶隊的老師熱心去幫這批喜歡跳舞的小孩,才會成事。」蓉蓉解釋說,「台灣有自己的舞蹈文化,從小學到大學,學校裏都有舞蹈實驗班,所以小孩從小學開始很順的一直跳舞下去,不像香港要到香港演藝學院(下稱演藝)才真正的開始學習跳舞。所以台灣學習舞蹈是一路上來的;但香港不是,它是斷了,斷斷續續的。對於想跳舞的小孩不會有一條很專業的路很順地走上去,直到進入了演藝才算真正到專業這是太晚了。」

 

“Only when there is support from school principals, as well as a dedicated teacher to help these young dancers, can the schools dance community in Hong Kong thrive.” Lin explained, “Taiwan has its own dance culture. From primary to secondary schools, there are experimental dance classes, so children start and continue to dance from junior school, which is different from Hong Kong, where one truly starts to learn to dance at the Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts (HKAPA). The road of learning to dance in Taiwan is straightforward, but it is stop-start in Hong Kong. There is no easy pathway for children who desire to dance as a vocation; it is too late when they are enrolled in the HKAPA to become a professional.”

 

林昭蓉 Lina Lin; 攝Photo: Ka Lam

 

「在台灣,學校不會很快把孩子分類,孩子會學習芭蕾舞、現代舞、中國舞和武功等等,在小學、中學什麽都要學,到了大學才會有專科。因此很多學校會聘請兼職的舞蹈老師,所以舞蹈系畢業生有出路。但是香港很難做到!因爲香港的家長一定把學業、專業技術擺在第一位,藝術方面不會首先去考慮的。」蓉蓉說她教過很多小學,見過太多這樣的家長,深刻感覺到當需要取捨,家長就不會讓孩子來跳舞,跟台灣的差別十分大。

 

“In Taiwan, children will not be classified when they receive dance education. They learn ballet, contemporary dance, Chinese dance, martial arts, etc; they need to learn everything in both primary and secondary schools until they can declare a specific dance major in college. Therefore, many schools will hire part-time dance tutors, providing employment opportunities to dance graduates. This is unattainable in Hong Kong, as parents here put studies and expertise at the top of their agenda, and never consider the artistic aspect.” After teaching in numerous junior schools and seeing many parents prohibiting children from dancing when they had to make a choice, Lin found it an enormous contrast to Taiwan.

 

這説到底就是孩子將來的出路問題,此次訪問的同學大都表示非常喜愛舞蹈,不過當問到將來會否投入舞蹈事業發展,大家都只能把它作爲興趣的看待。其中一位男同學表示,懂得分配時間是最重要,並說服家長舞蹈不會對學業帶來負擔。「我要展現一個責任心給父母看,他們才會讓我繼續跳下去。當然出路方面暫時還沒有考慮,會當作一個舒壓的活動持續參與。」

 

After all, it is about the future prospects of the children. Students in this interview stated that they were really fond of dancing, but when asked whether they would develop it as a career, they saw it merely as a hobby. According to a male student, time management was of utmost significance to convince parents that dancing would not burden academics. “I had to show that I was responsible enough to make them permit me to keep dancing. I have not thought about the future, but will continue to engage in it as a relaxing activity.”

 

(左起)何祖宜和小水點舞蹈團成員Alvin、Joy、Hailey
(From Left) Joey Ho and members of Hibiscus Group members Alvin, Joy, and Hailey; 攝Photo: Ka Lam

蓉蓉認爲,「時間」是香港教育最缺乏的東西,取捨之下家長並不會花孩子的時間於跳舞,但是孩子卻想跳舞。她深刻地說:「家長又『想要』但又『不擺』時間。很多小學生父母渴求舞蹈證書以增加報讀中學的競爭力,可是又不投放時間,非常矛盾,更缺乏對藝術的尊敬!」

 

Lin reckoned that “time” is the most deficient in Hong Kong education. There is no time for children to dance when they have to prioritize other things, yet they want to dance. She said profoundly, “Parents ‘want’ but are not willing to ‘give’ time. Many parents of primary school students want certain certificates for higher competitiveness in secondary school admission; notwithstanding, they are reluctant to allot time to dancing, which is very conflicting, and exposes the lack of respect for the arts in Hong Kong education!”

 

「所以,教中學生會比較開心一些,因爲他們會自己分配時間,年齡也大一些,可以知道你在想什麽,罵他們的時候也會自己反省。」

 

“As a result, teaching secondary school students is happier, as they are better at time management. Being more mature, they can also understand your thoughts; I may reflect on myself when I berate them.”

 

但除了以舞蹈為職業的出路,跳舞能帶給學生一些的不同嗎?

Apart from being a dance practitioner, can dance bring students some differences to their future?


「曾經遇到過一個讀書很棒的學生,父母對她非常嚴格,逼著她一定要讀書、一定要成績很高分,還送她到國外進修法律;其實女孩讀書是很不錯,但是很喜歡跳舞,從小到大一直沒要放棄過,在高中的時候還曾瞞著父母來學習跳舞,試過多次因爲想參加演出而與父母吵架。結果,女孩畢業之後做了律師。當時去應徵的人很多,可是公司只在眾多的高材生只挑選了這位女學生。原因是公司看中了這女孩會跳舞,認爲跳舞的人的腦子處理法律個案時會較靈活。」Joey認爲,跳舞的學生就是有這特點,雖然跳舞不可以成爲專業,但跳舞會令你與眾不同。
 

“I once met a student with outstanding academic performance. Her parents were extremely strict and demanded her to get really good grades; they even sent her abroad to study law. Her study was marvelous; yet, she was zealous about dancing and had never thought of giving it up. When she was studying junior high school, she even continued dancing without her parents’ acknowledgement, and quarreled with them over taking part in performances for many times. In the end, she became a lawyer. There were many candidates competing for the position, and the company settled on her among the pool of prominent students. It was because the company saw the ability to dance in her, and associated it with ability to flexible handling with legal cases.” To Ho, this is a feature of dance students. Although dancing may not become a career, it can make different from others.
 

作爲小水點的藝術總監,Joey不會讓學員只是以考試為訓練目的,反而會鼓勵學員學習多元化的舞蹈,並且繼續嚴格訓練和放多些時間安排每年到外地參加比賽,讓學員能夠多一點見識,以謙卑的心學習。正如她所説,「努力是將來的,不是即時,不能只看即時的一刻!」

 

As the Artistic Director of the Hibiscus Group, Ho does not allow students to train only for examinations. Instead, she encourages them to learn diversified dances styles, to persist with training, and to participate in overseas competitions every year, so that they can broaden their horizons, and learn with humility. As she said, “The fruits of hard work are borne in the future but not the present, and we cannot just have our eyes on the very instant!”

 

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November 6, 2019