[中][ENG] 本地舞蹈生態面面談 Chatting about Local Dance Scene


上兩期我們先後訪問了《舞蹈手札》的早期編輯與作者,分享了他們在編採與撰寫專題及評論文章的經驗。今期我們就把焦點拉近一點,分別請來兩位舞評人:朱琼愛(Daisy)、俞若玫(Cally),以及兩位舞蹈藝術家:楊雲濤(雲濤)、梅卓燕(小梅),一同聊聊近十年香港舞蹈界的一些現象與變化,並且談談他們的經驗和觀察。


In the last two issues, we interviewed previous editors and writers of dance journal/hk, who shared their experiences in editing, writing features, and critiques. For this issue, we will bring the focus closer to dance. We invited two dance critics – Daisy Chu and Cally Yu – and two artists – Yang Yuntao and Mui Cheuk-yin. The four discussed the trends and changes in Hong Kong’s dance scene in the past decade, as well as their own experiences and observations.


場地缺乏性格,觀眾難以分流

Daisy率先提到近年越來越多「撞SHOW」的現象,同一個週末可能有兩三個份量相當的演出同時上演,即使只計算舞蹈演出,數量也不少,足見本地創作力之旺盛。不過,熱衷於欣賞舞蹈的觀眾數量已經不多,若然不同製作還要互相爭取觀眾,情況就更糟,一眾舞迷只好疲於奔命或者進行取捨。


Performance Venues Lack Personalities to Differentiate Audiences

Chu first brought up the phenomenon of shows “clashing” with each other. There can be two to three new productions on the same weekend. Even if only dance performances are counted, the number is not small, signifying the abundance of local creations.


Yet, the number of eager dance viewers is not high, and shows fighting for audience with each other exacerbates the situation. Dance zealots have to keep very busy with shows or to make a choice.


小梅認為此情況難以避免,除非像美國紐約般,有不同類型與特色的劇場,滿足不同之觀眾群,如百老匯、外百老匯,以至外外百老匯,各有不一樣的製作定位,觀眾都很清楚在每一個劇場裏會看到甚麼,單從場地的特色就能夠找到自己心儀的節目,不必倚賴節目單張。然而,香港的表演場地大多為公營的多功能劇院,場地與場地之間都沒有明顯的分界線,欠缺各自的特色,無論是畢業禮還是大型演藝節目,也同樣會放在同一個劇院,其實是一個很畸形的現象,觀眾根本沒有途徑去追蹤分辨。小梅指若有不同性格的劇場出現,觀眾就自然可以分流,犯不著要各個製作「困獸鬥」。


Mui reckoned that this is inevitable, unless Hong Kong has a similar setting as that in New York, where different types of theatres come with different features. They cater to different audiences such as Broadway, Off-Broadway and Off-Off-Broadway – they have different positions so viewers have a clue what they will watch in each of these theatres. They can find the shows they like simply based on the theatre’s characteristics, rather than having to read through information on each programme.


However, Hong Kong’s theatres are mostly publicly-owned multifunctional venues without apparent distinctive features and boundaries. A theatre can house both a graduation ceremony and a large-scale performance. This is, in fact, a very peculiar phenomenon as this leaves no way for viewers to follow or identify. Mui said if there are theatres of different personalities, audiences can then be differentiated, so that shows don’t have to go head-to-head.


Cally就注意到近年獨立舞者及舞團的數量皆有所增加,而且也有不少新舞種、新類型的表演出現。這些別具實驗冒險精神的創作,很可能只是在舊區內某個單位,又或者天台的一角演出,像在罅縫中冒出來。即使現在在工廠區內有很多實驗演出,但製作團隊卻因怕工廈土地用途的政策而被打壓,難以公開演出地點,觀眾只能透過短訊獲得詳細的地址訊息。Daisy與小梅皆同意這些在工廈的演出能夠為觀眾提供另類選擇,但由於在工廠內舉辦演出,牽涉到一定數量的觀眾,滿足不到防火條例的要求就運行不了,故不能夠公開宣傳,難以接觸有興趣的觀眾群。


Yu noticed the growing number of independent dancers and dance groups in recent years as well as the emergence of new types of dances and shows. The adventurous works might take place in an apartment in an old district or at a corner on a rooftop, as if popping up from a tiny crack. Despite taking place in the industrial areas, many experimental productions fear being suppressed by the industrial land use policy, so they tend not to make their venue public and viewers can only know the address from private text messages. Chu and Mui believed that these performances in factories can offer alternative choices for viewers, but if venues in factories cannot fulfil the requirements of fire safety, the shows cannot take place officially so they are not able to publicize it, making it difficult to access potential audiences.

(左起)朱琼愛、俞若玫、楊雲濤、梅卓燕 (From Left) Daisy Chu and Cally Yu, Yang Yuntao and Mui Cheuk-yin; 攝Photo: 陳瑋鑫William Chan


資助制度僵化,創作支援有限

資源分配亦是直接影響創作質量的另一個大題目。小梅提到現在的資助制度,要求藝術家要有創作才有收入,故此創作人難以以輕鬆的態度去嘗試,亦缺乏空間去進行實驗,創作人往往自己還未了解作品,就已經被逼要放上舞台。若是該作品沒有巡演或再重演的機會,最終就只會淪為塵封於櫃桶底下的產物。所以近年小梅也為業界盡量爭取更多作品重演的機會,即使未能在香港再演,也要讓他們出外,希望作品可以透過不斷演出,有完善進步的機會。


Rigid Subsidy System and Limited Support for Artistic Creation

Resource allocation is a direct element affecting the quality of work. Mui said the current subsidy system requires artists to create before being funded. Artists cannot go into a project with an open, relaxed attitude, and they have insufficient space to experiment. Before truly knowing their own work, they are forced onto the stage. If the piece does not go on tour or get reruns, it becomes a product covered by dust in the attic. That is why Mui in recent years has been fighting for more chances for colleagues to rerun – even if these artworks are not shown again in Hong Kong, she hopes they can go out of the city and by rerunning, become refined and improved.


雲濤就認為創作人應該要好好思考為甚麼要做演出?如果創作純粹是為了要取得資助,最終只會產生內耗,把所以創作精力都消耗殆盡,更糟糕的是可能創作者自己也不知道。他直言現在他工作的香港舞蹈團是一個獲公帑資助的舞團,故此在創作上也不可能純粹考慮藝術,而是要從整個舞團的運作去作決定,斷不能只是為了滿足一些藝術上的追求。


Yang said creators should ask themselves why they produce the shows. If the aim is purely for subsidies, internal friction will erode all the creative energy. What’s worse is that the artist might have no knowledge of this. He admitted that the Hong Kong Dance Company, where he is currently working at, is a publicly subsidized dance company, so its creation pursues more than artistic concerns. The operation of the whole organization is often taken into account, rather than solely artistic pursuit.


小梅認為最理想是每一個製作也能夠有足夠三個月維持創作人生計的資助,去支持創作人安心創作,分階段進行試演,讓有潛力的作品可以拾級而上,好像比利時經典舞作《Rosas danst Rosas》,也是先在邊緣的劇場試演,才獲其他劇院邀約,一步一步走到大劇院以至世界。因此她認為可以嘗試建立不同資助階梯,支持每個階段值得發展的作品,並且應該要持續去培育一個創作人,而不是單就獨立的計劃申請作考慮。


Mui believed that the most ideal system should enable subsidies that support artists’ three-month livelihood for each artwork. They can conduct trial performances in different stages so pieces with potential can rise to fame gradually, like the classic dance piece Rosas danst Rosas from Belgium, which went through trial performances in fringe theatres before stepping up by invitation to grand theatres and then globally. She thought that by trying to set up funding systems of different hierarchies, the systems can support the pieces that stand out at each level. Funding systems should consistently nurture an artist, instead of taking applications one by one as independent cases.


Daisy同意有關建立分階梯的資助制度,並且認為理想的做法是能夠提供二至三年的資助,去培養一位藝術家,不一定要他/她們每兩、三個月就產出新作,又或者最終要求有完整的作品生成,而是可以先作試演,再一步步給予空間、時間去雕琢作品。小梅覺得這個建議有可能實踐,但整個制度及決策者思維都必須要改變,始終目前兩大資助機構藝術發展局與民政事務局的資助審批方式,其實只是救急,而非著眼於藝術的長遠發展。


Chu echoed Mui’s suggestion of setting up funding systems of different hierarchies. She suggested that the ideal subsidy can support and nurture an artist for two to three years. It should not force a new piece from them every two to three months or demand a complete work at the end, but rather, artists can have trial performances so they have time and space to polish their pieces. Mui reckoned that the suggestion is plausible, but it requires changes in the whole institution and the decision makers’ mindset. She said the subsidy approval system of the two major sponsors, Hong Kong Arts Development Council and the Home Affairs Bureau, are only band aids but fail to consider the long-term development of arts.


評論與創作平台支援的今昔變化

回看近十年的評論方式,Cally表示有很大的轉變。她說十年前撰寫評論時,自己要去找很多資料,盡量去了解有關舞團或舞者的過往作品及相關資料等等。現在就比較幸運,能夠自己走入排練室觀看創作過程,也有不同的創作工作坊讓評論人去參與。透過這