[中][ENG]楊雲濤:不忘赤子之心 The Child in You, Yang Yuntao


訪問Interview : 尉瑋 Wei Wei 拍攝及剪接Video shooting and editing: 余健衡 Ifan Yu

太極指導 Tai Chi Instructor: 夏雪 Xia Xue (香港太極青年團副主席 Vice-Chairlady of Hong Kong Taichi Youth Association) 鳴謝香港舞蹈團提供相片 Special thanks to Hong Kong Dance Company providing photos

現任香港舞蹈團藝術總監的楊雲濤,現在最強調的,是創作時直視自己的赤誠之心。在年少的求學歲月中,他也曾對舞蹈不那麼確定,對自己心生懷疑;而在每一次打開視野、重塑觀念後又再整頓出發。藝術總歸是不斷求索的過程,向外,也向內。一路走來,楊雲濤自言是行動派,無論是過去為自己定位,還是現在為舞團探索發展方向,他一直尋找那個位置,找到了,就話不多說,先做起來。


Yang Yuntao, the Artistic Director of the Hong Kong Dance Company (HKDC), stresses the importance of facing our inner child during the creative process. While he was a student, there were times Yang was uncertain about dance and questioned his ability. But, he always recovered from those bouts of self-doubt and carried on afterward with a broadened horizon and newly formed ideas. After all, art is a ceaseless exploration of the outer world and inner self. Yang regards himself as a man of action. From finding his niche in the past to searching for a new direction for development of the Company today, Yang has always sought perspective. Once he discovers it, he starts work without further ado.

殘酷的青春事業

Youthful Uncertainties


楊雲濤是雲南大理人,白族,11歲時就被北京中央民族大學(前中央民族學院)舞蹈系錄取,畢業後卻很快轉而加入了廣東現代舞團。雖然他曾在中國舞蹈荷花獎比賽及全國少數民族舞蹈比賽獲金獎,但他沒選擇去民族舞團,他這樣解釋,「跳民族舞的比我好的人太多了,沒得競爭嘛。」他笑。這回答也未免太老實了點。「每個人經歷不同,人要認清楚自己。」他淡淡地說。


Yang is from the Bai ethnic minority group and was born in Dali, Yunnan. When he was 11, he was admitted to the Dance School of Minzu University of China, and soon after graduation joined the Guangdong Modern Dance Company. Though he won Gold Awards in National Lotus Awards Competition and National Dance Competition for Ethnic Minorities, he didn’t try to get into a folk dance company because “There were plenty of people who could dance way better than I did and I just could not compete with them,” Yang laughs. This is a rather candid answer, yet he continues and gently says, “The experience of each person is unique. We need to have a clear picture of ourselves.”


楊雲濤的身上的確少見所謂藝術家的飄渺氣質,取而代之的是一種沉穩、務實,一點煙火氣。在他早年的作品《邊城》、《笑傲江湖》或是在城市當代舞蹈團演出的《蘭陵王》中,在編創上,你能感受到那種對規整結構與節奏的掌控;表演上則是粗礪的力量感不斷突進,甚至有時,有點用力過猛;然而到了去年的《紅樓.夢三闕》之〈白〉,他鬆下來,舉重若輕,反而更自在了。


Instead of so-called artistic elegance, Yang’s charm lies in his steadiness and pragmatic approach to life. In early productions, such as Border Town, The Smiling, Proud Wanderer, and his performance in City Contemporary Dance Company’s Warrior Lanling, you can feel his grasp of neat structure and rhythms in his choreography, and, in his performance, a raw power that constantly built, to an extent that sometimes it was a bit too vigorous. On the other hand, Yang has grown more at ease and the mood of his work has become more relaxed, notably in his performance in Blanc from Reveries of the Red Chamber last year.

楊雲濤於他編舞的《紅樓.夢三闕》之<白>中演出 Yang in Blanc in Reveries of the Red Chamber; 攝Photo: Stephen Yau

「舞蹈事業蠻矛盾的,它的限定就是和你的身體有關係,可是我們知道人的身體和人的觀念有個落差,當你身體最好的時候你的腦子是跟不上的,可是當你慢慢地開始熱愛這個事業,腦子開始明白舞蹈明白藝術的時候,你的身體就已經開始走下坡路了。舞蹈是一項青春的事業,很殘酷的青春的事業。」


“A dance career is quite contradictory. It’s medium is the body, but there is a gap between body and mind. Your mind lags behind when your body is at its peak. However, as you start to fall in love with your vocation and understand art and dance, your body begins to go downhill. Dance is a career for the young, which is exceptionally cruel.”

在最青春的時候,楊雲濤對舞蹈,特別是從小學習的民族民間舞,完全是懵懂的狀態。「十六、十七歲就從學校畢業,年齡太小,很多東西都不懂,怎麼就畢業了。」直到學了現代舞,年紀再長了兩年,才開始慢慢開竅。「因為現代舞是針對這裡(腦子),它和古典的審美也有很大的不同。古典的審美是要統一、標準化,比如芭蕾舞。而芭蕾不是人人能跳的,對你的身體條件有要求,無論你有多熱愛。現代舞不同,它提倡的是,只要你想,人人都可以進來,事實也證明了,放眼國際,很多的流派不用經過芭蕾的專業訓練。接觸了現代舞後,開啟了我對舞蹈的這個認知。」


In his youth, when he was at his peak, Yang was confused about dance, in particular folk dance, which he had been learning since he was small. “Graduating at the age of sixteen or seventeen, I was inept in many areas. How can one finish school at such a young age?” He feels as if he did not start to become educated until he grew a couple of years older and began to learn modern dance. “Since modern dance engages the mind, it is very different from classical aesthetic expressiveness. Classical aesthetics require uniformity and standardization, such as in ballet. No matter how passionate you are about ballet, not everyone can dance it well because of the demands on one’s physical facility. Modern dance is in complete contrast, as it advocates free entry as far as one wants to enter its world. Reality has also proven that many dance genres do not require professional ballet training to get on the international stage. Modern Dance has inspired me with this notion.”

打開觀念,楊雲濤並沒有從此背離原本的舞蹈經歷,一頭扎進現代舞的世界;反而在民族民間舞裡重新找到了一份自信。「我在學的時候根本認識不到它的好,甚至覺得自己跳得不好,那種感覺可能和我們的體制和教學有關,也許是從老師的眼神裡面,覺得自己跳得不好的。這些反而成了把我框死的觀念。」楊雲濤說,「當我接觸現代舞之後,我發現我可以跳得很好呀,為什麼之前要去這樣認定自己?標準幹嘛要在別人那裡?我更自在了,以前有點拘謹,甚至有點自卑。」


Yang did not abandon his previous dancing experience and turn to the world of modern dance; instead his broadened perspective has enabled him to become confident in folk dance. “I did not know its merits when I learnt folk dance; what was more, I thought I was clumsy at dancing it. This feeling may be related to our institution and education. Perhaps from the eyes of the teacher, I thought I was a poor student, and this inhibited me.” Yang says, “After learning modern dance, I figured out that I too am a good dancer. Why did I think of myself that way? Why did I let other people gauge my ability? I was a bit reserved, even felt inferior, but now I am free.”


他說,也許正是因為這份自信帶出了他身上某種特質,才讓香港舞蹈團選上了他。2002年,楊雲濤正式加入香港舞蹈團成為首席舞蹈員,之後的十六年,通過舞蹈這一深愛的志業,與香港這座城市結下了不解緣。


According to Yang, the HKDC might have chosen him because of certain qualities brought on by this confidence. In 2002, he officially became principle dancer of the Company, intertwining his fate with Hong Kong over the following sixteen years with dance being his vocation.


楊雲濤(左)Yang (left); 圖片由香港舞蹈團提供Photo provided by HKDC